Virtually Real

Andrew is asking questions about online relationships and their nature.

Its a question I have been pondering recently too. Are virtual relationships less real than those we have in person? We used to always answer ‘yes’ to that because it seemed odd or weird, even kinda ‘raincoat’ creepy to have a ‘relationship’ thru an lcd screen, but these days I am not so sure.

Here are some random observations:

I met Andrew last year when he and Jo were in Perth for a period of time and we got to know each other. Usually when people move away (esp to the other side of the planet) you lose all contact, but because of blogs I now have a fair idea of where Andrew’s life is at in a broad sense. We could meet up tomorrow and we would have things to speak about.

Yesterday I caught up with Alex (who comments on here) at a course on evangelicalism at the Baptist Theological College. I ‘converse’ more with Alex online than I do in person and we made that observation in front of the class. I noticed that it was met with some curiosity and maybe even a little hint of ‘how whacky’ by others. But, having connected online did make me feel something of a resonance with Alex when we were face to face.

Phil & Dan have decided to shut down Signposts. We ‘met’ 3 or 4 years ago online and these guys have become good friends. Phil is coming to Perth next week and staying at our home as he leads a Forge seminar. A relationship that began online… and now is fostered by both online and in person contact.

Grendel is my friend and lives all of 1 km from me, but we probably have more regular contact on here than in person. I noticed that when I stopped blogging for 6 months we had less regular interaction but as I have started again it feels like we are more connected. Of course we see each other in person, but it might not even be weekly just due to the busy nature of life. Is this weird?… or just life?…

I could go on with many other examples, but my point is simply that if these are relationships then they are real, whether they are from a computer or from a face to face meeting. Maybe I’m just catching up to the rest of the universe here, as I was one who despised online contact as a lesser form of interaction.

As Andrew points out in his post it is not ‘lesser’ but different and does offer some dimensions that might be missing in a non-connected world

What are you thoughts here?

Do you feel like your online relationships are real, or false?

Is the net just a way of avoiding human contact?

A Little Bit of Self Revelation

Matt has a great blog that explores how we engage with new spiritualities. He has tagged me and I am required to let you in on 8 things about me… I’ll try and let you know some stuff that you otherwise wouldn’t be aware of from reading the general nonsense on this blog!

Here goes:

1. I was once destined for the scrapheap when it comes to education. Growing up in Belfast, I did poorly at the 11+ exam and was due to be sent to the local tech school (a second grade education) but that same year we moved to the land of Oz. Because Irish kids started school 2 years before Oz kids I was quite advanced for my age and finished up becoming the runner up dux of the primary school. From then on, instead of thinking of myself as dumb I began to think of myself as intelligent and competent, a shift I believe was pivotal in orienting my whole life.

2. I have never had a bad experience of church – at least not one that I carry as a war wound. Sometimes it seems that those of us who are seeking to do mission and express our spirituality outside the main stream are perceived to have been burnt. Nope. I have always had very good experiences and love the church in all its expressions.

3. I used to be a pretty decent basketballer… but those days are long gone! I had a great 3 point shot, but was a lousy ball carrier. I played up until I was 40, but badly hurt my back that year and have struggled to get back into it.

4. Danelle and I ‘dated’ for 3 weeks before I proposed to her. Ok, so we lived in the same Bible College for 9 months together… but we literally were serious for 3 weeks before we both felt confident enough to jump. Even weirder is that I spent one of those weeks at a state basketball tournament in Sydney and while I was gone she went and purchased fabric for a wedding dress… before I had even asked her… Don’t call me presumptious!

5. I have been to the Philippines 9 times. The first two were short term basketball mission trips, the next couple were surfing trips and then I came back to visit friends and with a view to being a missionary there. It never eventuated, but it was those experiences that formed my sense of calling to be a vocational missionary.

6. I hardly ever listen to music. If I am driving I prefer silence, or if I listen to anything its usually a sermon. There is some music I like and I actually find music very moving and powerful at times, but I could easily live without it.

7. I like to drive old cars and believe they are better value than newer cars. I don’t think I have owned a newish car (let alone a brand new one!) but my favourites have been a Datsun 1600 (that once did 165kph down the freeway – at 3 am in the morning), and my current 1985 Landcruiser. If someone could prove to me that it was more economical to buy a newer car then I would change, but for now, I believe the best way to spend money on a depreciating asset is to spend as little as possible.

8. When I was 16 I used to have a job at Myers in Karrinyup, working in the ‘despatch’ area. It was a weird job because on Thursday nights and Saturday mornings there were never any despatches… so I never had anything to do. On Thursday evenings I would take in my homework and just finish that off while on Saturday morning a teenage girl’s dance class came in (and they were stunning), so I just watched them do their thing… I went on holidays after 6 months and when I came back my job had been discontinued… someone had caught on! It was fun while it lasted!

Cause We’ve Always Done it That Way… Or NOT… Re-thinking Communion

The beauty of starting church from scratch is that you get to re-invent everything. You are free to re-visit every core belief and practice and re-assess its validity or form.

Over the next few weeks at Upstream we are revisiting the whole idea of communion/the eucharist/ Lord’s Supper or whatever you choose to call it. We haven’t developed any set practices yet, or any immovable theological convictions in this area and our current expression is ad hoc at best. It seemed like time to try and nail this one down…

‘Good luck!’ I hear you say…

wine.jpg

And that is kinda how it feels. Given that 2000 years of church history has led us to such a diversity of opinions I doubt we will be able to find the ‘right answer’, but I reckon we still need to determine what our position is and how we will express it. At the moment it is just either vague or a replica of what we have inherited, because we haven’t taken the time to explore it.

So today I began the crew on the task of asking some serious questions about communion. You might like to think them thru too, as I am guessing that many of us just take our current practice for granted and could use some deeper reflection.

Let me offer a few scenarios / issues to get you thinking. Please take some time to engage in the comments as I are trying to do some serious learning here.

———-

Last year when I was a guest speaker at the Anglican Training in Ministry intensive, a seminar for soon to be ordained clergy. I was there presenting ‘Forgey’ stuff, but over dinner the conversation turned to ‘the eucharist’ and I listened with curiosity. For some reason the folks were discussing how you estimate accurately the number of bits of bread and the amount of wine.

prepare_lg.jpg

After a few minutes it dawned on me…

I thought out loud, ‘Oh of course, you guys believe the priest has to eat/drink whatever’s left don’t you?!’

‘And what about you?’ one woman asked…

‘Oh we just toss it out’, I said much to her horror.

‘But how can you?’ she asked genuinely concerned.

I went on to explain that we don’t see it as anything special, and she explained to me that once it had been ‘consecrated’, to her it was very special. I realised I was on touchy ground on this topic with Anglicans and my Baptist ‘remembrance/ordinance’ position was not ringing any bells for her.

————-

I remember growing up in my traditional Baptist church, where communion was always at the end of the service, so that those who ‘love and serve the Lord’ could be involved… but those who didn’t

fanboys movie download

practical magic dvd download

were free to leave, or to observe.

I always felt for people who left. They seemed like second class citizens in that environment.

Either that or (like me) they were too young to take communion…

————-

Which leads to another question of when is a person old enough to take communion?

I have allowed my children to take communion ever since they have told me that they love Jesus. I think 3 was the age they were first able to verbalise that.

We explain it to them each time as the bread and wine come around, and while they dont get it all, they know they are considered ok to partake.

This would not have happened in the world I grew up in.

————-

So that’s the kids…

They have christian parents and a childlike faith… and in my opinion they qualify, but what about adults who are not Christians… Can they take communion if they want to remember Jesus?

At our Easter camp we went to Busselton with 5 families who would not see themselves as believers and we held a remembrance service on Good Friday. They joined us for it and as part it there was opportunity to take communion (bread and wine)

Around half of those who aren’t Christians took the bread and the wine.

Is that ok?…

————-

asian.jpg

Of course if you see communion as a meal then it gets even trickier, especially if you don’t believe that non-believers should be able to take part. Do you then exclude them from the meal?

On what basis do you decide their worthiness of communion?

Are ‘strays’ allowed communion – those who have lost their way with faith?

Is this what Paul meant about eating in an unworthy manner?

————-

Of course this raises another question of when we are actually doing communion and when we are just having a feed together. Is every meal a communion meal? Or do we need to declare it as such?

Is it only communion if we use wine and unleavened bread – or grape juice and wafers in our ‘Baptist’ case?

Is pizza and beer legitimate for communion?

————-

Then there are the really tricky aspects, like should only men be allowed to serve communion (there has been plenty of church biffo over this one) and if they are serving then should they have to wear ties?!

Okay, so that was the 80’s but I’ll bet there are some places around today where you’d need to be wearing trousers and a tie to be able to serve communion… Some churches even insist that you have to be an ordained priest…

Then there’s the Salvos… who just don’t bother.

————-

I could go on, but the you get the idea. This is very shaky ground for making categorical statements, yet over the years thousands have died for their beliefs on this subject.

Hopefully we will get thru the next few weeks without any unnecessary deaths, but let’s not underestimate the significance of the topic. For some people this is critical and for others it somewhat peripheral.

As a Baptist by heritage I struggle to see the sacramental aspect of communion, in fact for me communion has often been a time of fairly strained boredom as I have zoned out and felt guilty about my disinterest. I doubt this was what Jesus intends, but I also doubt he intended for it to be the place for a second sermon and a ‘symbolic’ feast. As a kid I always wondered if the minister was a bit whacked when he spoke of the feast and we finished up with a smidgeon of a Jatz cracker and a little thimble of raspberry cordial. A feast?!…

The aim of today’s learning was to de-stabilise the views that we have inherited and to plant questions in the minds of those present, ultimately with a very practical objective – to figure out what we will do at Upstream.

Anyway if you’re interested in the learning exercise here’s what we did:

1.We began by choosing a picture card to depict our experience of communion and then we shared why we chose that card.

2. From there I gave a short history of how communion has developed in the various traditions and what the different threads of belief are. We each reflected on our heritage and how we had been shaped.

3. We then turned to the gospel and 1 Cor to look at some biblical material.

The water grew murkier and murkier… This was the plan however!

4. So as we finished today I sent everyone off with a question to research and then report back on (5 mins max) next time we meet. The questions we are exploring are below:

1. When is communion ‘legitimate’ and when is it not?

2. What actually happens during communion? Is it a sacrament or an ordinance?

3. What is the main purpose/s of communion? How do we achieve them in what we do?

4. What form should communion take? Should it be a meal or a small cup of juice and a wafer of bread? Why?

5. Who is allowed to take communion? What guidelines are there?

6. Who can serve communion? Why do churches differ on this?

7. How often should a group celebrate communion?

8. Why has the form changed so much over the years? (meal – symbols)

9. What does it mean to take communion in an unworthy manner?

I love this kind of learning that really takes us back to some serious research and engagement with scripture and church history.

Unequally Yoked?

What does it mean to be ‘unequally yoked’?

Historically this term has been used to disallow Christians either marrying or forming significant partnerships (eg business) with non-Christians. I have always seen this as a fairly stock standard evangelical idea in regard to marriage. I would hold it less tightly in regard to business partnerships and other relationships.

However the other day I met someone who asked a question that has me pondering…

After a marriage to a Christian that ended badly, this person would now seriously consider marrying a person who is not a Christian, but does have some genuine sympathy for who Jesus is and who is living a life that resembles Jesus’.

This person would say that in their first marriage they actually were unequally yoked despite the partner being a professing Christian. The partner did not live a life that took the teachings of Jesus seriously and actually lived contrary to scripture in many ways.

The person would argue that they would be more ‘equally yoked’ with a Jesus-like non-Christian than with a non-Jesus-like ‘Christian’ (and we all know there are plenty of them around!) It would be better to be married to a muslim who lives like Jesus or a buddhist who embraces Jesus teachings than a Christian who doesn’t…

What do you think?

I won’t give any details on the person’s situation as I want to protect their identity, but I’m interested in your opinion. I will say that I have no doubt as to the integrity of the person’s faith or to their commitment to living in the way of Jesus.

So…Is it always ‘wrong’ for a real deal, Jesus following, ‘card carrying’ Christian to marry a person who lives like Jesus, but would definitely not regard themselves as a Christian?

And… Can you be unequally yoked with a Christian?…

yoked.jpg

Here is the relevant passage from 2 Cor 6

14Do not be yoked together with unbelievers. For what do righteousness and wickedness have in common? Or what fellowship can light have with darkness? 15What harmony is there between Christ and Belial? What does a believer have in common with an unbeliever? 16What agreement is there between the temple of God and idols? For we are the temple of the living God. As God has said: “I will live with them and walk among them, and I will be their God, and they will be my people.”

17″Therefore come out from them and be separate, says the Lord.

Touch no unclean thing,and I will receive you.”

18″I will be a Father to you, and you will be my sons and daughters, says the Lord Almighty.”

We buggered it up plenty in the past by insisting that Christians ‘come out and be separate’ from the world and creating Christian sub-cultures rather than being integrated in the world. Is this concept also a mistake that we should throw out?…

Don’t Mention the War! God Botherers & Politics

Ok, I tuned into the Eastern States version of the political broadcast to God botherers and here are my notes. I have to say Johnny was pretty smooth, yet at the same time would not have been convincing to the evangelical sector. And he didn’t mention the war… at all. I thought it would have at least been a minor issue. Who was the more appealing?… I think Kevin Rudd seemed more articulate and better able to address the issues – but then he hasn’t had to ‘do it’ yet.

Anyway here are some notes for those who may be interested. The notes are not intended to be fully legible as i scribbled them while the show was in progress – make of them what you will and I acknowledge that there may errors in my interpretation of Johnny’s & Kev’s spiel

John Howard

Howard leads off with Wilberforce as a model of faith – good idea – contemporary and appeals to all.

Our strange ambivalence with Christian faith as a nation

“No influence more profound than Judaeo-Christian ethic” (in 2004 speech)

Atheism in a virulent form in western society and we need to be aware

God neither lib nor labour – God is ‘not on my side’ – does claim a high number of Xns in party

Bringing my beliefs and politics together – two parables:

Good Samaritan – everyone is deserving of dignity and worth – moral obligation to help underdog

Talents – the free enterprise parable – use what you have

We are not a perfect gov but we have:

– lowered unemployment by 29% in 12 mths

– economy strong and positive – important when looking at social justice scorecard because can’t do much without good people and a strong economy”

Deal head on with 2 crits:

– don’t care about the marginalized & poor – vigorously reject – medicare stronger – health ins stronger – tax system progressive – “rich have not got richer at expense of poor getting poorer”

– changes to IR – safety net and fairness test in changes – 365000 more jobs created – fewer strikes than ever since 1913 – debate over role of trade union movement – unions should not enjoy a monopoly on the bargaining process in IR

“I have sought to extend in legitimate fashion the role and influence of the Xn church because I believe it is a profound force for good in the nation.”

Eg. The new schools policy that allows new schools to spring up

Committed to freedom of parental choice in education (spoken as a public school person)

We are not indifferent to God school

I am very proud of ‘new job network agencies’, family rel centres (to inject Anglicare etc as a shock absorber for marriage bust ups), school chaplaincy program

Duty of care society owes to children – intervention in indigenous communities in NT an expression of this. Based on belief of importance of law and order before health, ed, housing etc

The internet – a new initiative – ‘Net Alert’ – a range of practical tools – safety tools – free filter product for each family and public libs – also working with ISPs for protection $189 million to protect family

Present and future issues:

– foreign aid – we need to maintain and adequate amount – we need to see lowered corruption, better gov and trade opps – lower trade barriers better than foreign aid – 3.2 billion dollars in aid – 2.5 bill over 5 years to invest in our own region – double aid budget from 2004 by 2010

– climate change – committed to balanced practical approach to climate change – need to pay attention but without damaging economy – do our fair share but not more – put all energy sources on the table including nuclear – emissions trading system to be intro’d by 2012

This event was a wonderful initiative – we have been more shaped by Christianity than by any other force – these have been influences for the good (not unblemished)

Churches have helped Oz greatly

Thanks to silent toiling members of Christian church of Oz who live out the exhortations of the gospels. Contribution cannot be measure by GDP, but by the social impact.

Questions:

Philip Wilson (Cath) how does faith shape political leadership and what qualities do leaders need

– love for country

– physical stamina

– 2 parables – the talents = free enterprise – use wisely & invest wisely – also good Samaritan

Had dinner in question time so that’s why I only recorded two 🙂

Carolyn Kitto asked a great qn of the Aus aid budget – will we seek to get it to 0.7% of GDP when it is currently only 3.5% – we will do all we can, but won’t be pushed – need to fix the broken govs in Africa eg Zimbabwe

Jonny gets standing ovation

Kevin Rudd

Significance of Xnity in Oz today – 70% believe in Xn God – 4 million attend monthly – 2 million weekly (really?!)

We are a modern secular democracy and this is a good thing

Advocates separation of church and state

Xnity inseparable from formation of this country

We should be proiud of Xn heritage and tolerant of diversity

Lists denoms and social groups who have shaped Oz eg anglicare, uniting care, lifeline, Salvos – who did he miss? (Camera shifts to Carolyn Kitto – World Vision – not mentioned!)

Mine is a very garden variety personal faith (for 30 years)

Question of personal faith provides a compass point and shapes values and the view I bring to the pubic space (not always successfully)

How does this affect my take on politics? (lots of jokes – winning the corwd over)

Xns and Politics – apart from my friend and family I must be equally resp for my country, humanity and earth – ‘looking beyond yourself’

St Francis ‘in giving you receive’

Questions of policy:

– work and family – how do I find ‘time’ and share it with family when work demands are so ravenous? Parallel challenge = how do I make ends meet? Balancing work and fam – limit to what state can do – laws in workplace have gone too far and impact on quality of fam life – (good critique – what is his response?) the balance is wrong – ‘forward with fairness’ – penalty rates, overtime = working families know they can’t be traded – fairness and balance

– housing affordability – a big problem – summit on housing affordability – ½ billion dollar fund – tax credits for those who would invest in affordable housing – will ‘make it happen’

– education – concerned to invest in – turn this country into most educated in western world – best gov schools and best church schools in western world – key thing is the output – specifics – skills training for the trades – 2 ½ billion for trades training – every 4 year old in play based, pre numeracy education

– climate change – the great moral and envir and econ challenge of the generation – we are custodians – and need to ensure those who come after us are cared for. We see the gov has denied this (non ratification of Kyoto or est of carbon target) would ratify Kyoto – reduce greenhouse by 60% by 2020 – increase renewal energies – our core business

– foreign aid – basic dictum – where is my parish? (John Wesley) the world is my parish – lift aid to 0.5% by 2015 – still pretty pissweak – refugees = most show our heart – we have opposed the Iraq war – must help out –

unifying vision = hard heats and soft hearts

The end…

Also a standing ovation…

You Belong to Me

I was reading Romans 12 yesterday and reflecting on the words bolded below. I read them to our missionary team last night as we had our monthly team meeting. Normally we are challenged by Romans 12:2, but it was v 5 that stood out to me yesterday.

…4Just as each of us has one body with many members, and these members do not all have the same function, 5so in Christ we who are many form one body, and each member belongs to all the others

We ‘belong’ to each other.

That’s both a beautiful concept because it binds us together yet also a challenging one!sydney aka hard eight download free

The ‘Pioneering’ Plant

Sherry and Geoff discussed this idea of ‘pioneering plants’ with us while they were in Perth and today Sherry described it on their blog. She writes about permaculture and a book she has been reading on the subject, then goes on:

“i came across a particular recommendation in the book that interested me greatly. i think it serves as a useful, earthy anology to the apostolic work of the people of god. in a section on succession planting, the manual defines a type of plant called “pioneer species.” these plants are “selected shrubs, which can live in degraded soil, improve soil nutrients, and protect seedling trees, and are planted initially”

apparently, as other species are planted after these first inhabitants the stability of the ecosystem is strengthened. so the ability of an ecosystem to survive is based to a significant degree on the first type of species planted, a pioneering species. these initial species must be able to weather the compromised conditions of “degraded soil” in order to make the surrounding area more inhabitable for future plants.

I wonder if some of us in missionary ventures can learn from this analogy. Maybe a key quality of the pioneer is the ability to survive in difficult soil and to enable it to be more fertile for those who come after…

Thanks Sherry!

Chasing the God Botherer Vote

rudd.jpg

After sitting down at my laptop last Thursday night to watch the Howard/Rudd speech to Christians (and feeling like a complete dill 10 minutes later when I realised it was on this week) I have been wondering what issues may get addressed.

Is it going to be a mirror of the USA’s political footballs – homsexuality, abortion etc to try and win the conversative evangelical ‘family’ vote?

Or will we see some bigger picture thinking and a ‘kingdom of God’ mentality as they seek to win us over?…

What do you think Rudd & Howard need to address to be listened to by Christians?…

Hamo’s Random Coffee Commentary III

A couple of weeks ago I wandered into Cafe 54, a new operation in Pier Street at the Eastern end of the city. They recognised the voucher I handed over in return for coffee, courtesy of those amazing people at 5 Senses and asked ‘Did you go on the coffee tour with Grendel?’ ‘uh huh…’ I admitted carefully…

We had some good counter banter and I ordered a flat white and a chicken and bacon sandwich thingy. The staff were friendly, the sandwich was beaudiful (one of the best I’ve had) and the cafe itself feels great, but the coffee – which was the reason I went there – was a bit average. It wasn’t what I expected as they use good beans and have a very nice synesso machine!

I didn’t think much more about it, but knocked up a brief review in my draft box all ready to post…

Then came an email from Mike, the cafe owner. Not realising I had been in that day, but having read my other reviews he offered me a free coffee so that I could write a review on them also. I told him I had ‘been there done that’ but would happily do it again! I explained that the coffee wasn’t what I expected.

cafe-54.jpg

It turns out the coffee I didn’t like, was made on a day when the machine had broken down and the blend had changed – so it wasn’t just me being a fussy bugger. Everyone has a bad day (which is well worth remembering when writing reviews).

I went in again on Friday to have lunch with Mike (a local church minister) and two of his staff team. This time the coffee was great and the rest was very nice also. I actually liked the fact that the coffee had a distinctive flavour but unlike Grendel I don’t have the vocab to describe it!

Cafe 54 has a heap going for it with great staff, a brilliant location (opposite Miss Mauds), good food and excellent coffee. The big couches looked very inviting so next time I’m in I might try them out!

I have stolen the images from the five senses crew. You can read their review here