I was thinking today about Paul who chose not to draw a wage from the people he was doing misson amongst so that no one could ever say he was in it just for the money.

That is some of what I feel. I would hate for people to become Christians only to discover that they are expected to then give money to pay me… ‘Ah… you led me to Christ so you could pay the bills?’…

I would still be committed to challenging people to be generous with their money and I sense if its not coming to me then I may have a heap more leverage in that area. I actually feel very passionate about the need for Christians to be much more generous than we are.

I would have no qualms about receiving support from mature Christians in the team or long term churchies who have been in that system, but with so much suspicion out there about churches and money I would prefer not to recieve money from new followers until they see it as an issue.

If that is the case then it means doing some support raising. As I thought this thru today it is feeling more and more like the way I’d like to go.

There is the question of how it is structured – is it an informal thing where people just slip us a few dollars each month or do we need a more formal system? Do we need an ‘award system’?…

Sounds complicated!

free patriot the movie download

• tenacious d in the pick of destiny divx movie online

I’ve been chewing on this for a while and my thoughts are still formative, so feel free to add your own reflections on this fun topic…

The question I am wanting to explore is:

How are people to be supported financially in a missionary setting? Is it the same as our established local church setting or do we need to take other variables into consideration?

This might take more than one post!…

Here are my own core beliefs and thoughts that will frame how I am seeing this question:

* However we think about money, we need it to live. Stuff costs money – its an unavoidable fact of life.

* I think its pretty clear from scripture that we are to both work for money and be generous with our financial resources. I don’t believe in the tithe – as I don’t see it having any NT backing. I won’t go on about that, but if you want to read a really good treatment of this topic see Stuart Murray’s ‘Beyond Tithing’. I believe God calls us to much more than a tithe (and yes, that is what we seek to practice.)

* I believe it is appropriate for churches to support people who have been called to work as missionaries / leaders and have no problem with receiving financial support from a church community.

* I believe everyone can (and needs to) give financially. The fact that Jesus spoke about money so much indicates its power and our need to resist that power. Stewardship definitely extends beyond the financial, but to suggest we don’t need to give $$$ because we give in other ways is something of a furphy. The story of the widow’s two bob tells us something quite profound. Everyone has money and can give something. I have heard the ‘I don’t have any money’ line quite often and it seems to me that it is rarely the truth. We all have some money – where we choose to direct it is the question.

* Those outside the church are very very skeptical about how the church sees money. It seems many see the church as ‘money-grabbing’. For me this raises the question of how we disciple in this area. I sense it is critical to speak with new followers very early in the piece about serving God with our money, but if that simply translates to ‘put money in the hat so I can pull a wage’ then we may potentially fuel the skepticism. This is the difficult territory I want to explore.

The question has become more pressing for us because I will be finishing teaching at the end this year to devote more time to working in the Brighton community and with our team, as well as giving more time to Forge.

Danelle and I have chewed this decision thru over the last 6 weeks , spoken with our team, shared it with our pray-ers and believe that the time has come to give ourselves more fully to the two core roles we have been called to. We have been appreciative of the teaching work and income, even if it has been an emotional drain. (On Friday I let the school know I was finishing up. It turns out it was just as well as they already have a full timer lined up to replace all of us part timers!)

So… come Jan 1st we are minus a large sum of money and will be needing to find other income sources.

Amway?…

I sense our team is quite open to supporting us and we wil be discussing this with them. Here are some questions I will pick up on in the next post:

* Should we become an incorporated body and then draw a ‘wage’ – 1 day/week or 2 days/week etc?

* Should we ask people individually to support us and keep things very loose?

* Should we limit support to our team and people in the Brighton area or ought we seek support from other friends/family etc?

* If we receive income / support are we then accountable to the supporters?…

* Should we expect new followers to support us financially?

* What do overseas missionaries do with funds that ‘church members’ contribute?

I am not averse to a simple system of giving and support, but I’d like to do some thinking on it so that we don’t just accept what we have always done as the ‘right’ way.

Any thoughts so far?

These quotes upset the ‘lets get together and hug’ apple cart a bit don’t they?…

But they make perfect sense also.

“If we are to be truly missional, I think we’ll find we can’t have a tight-knit community, because Other People who are not like us at all will inconveniently disrupt the warm fuzzy feelings.”

“In the context of a community that is open and accepting of all others – intimacy and friendship are both mutually exclusive rather than inclusive. If intimacy is the requirement for community then those people i am not intimate with cannot be a part of my community; likewise, if friendship is the requirement – only friends are welcome.”

Mission is messy.

After a while in the emerging missional church scene I am now part of its easy to forget that what we are about is anathema to many other sincere Christian people. I regularly forget that there are people out there who think Andrew Hamilton has lost the plot, is wasting his talents etc.

Every now and then though I am reminded – blank stares when I am presenting (ok – could be because I am boring) and people avoiding me after the meeting (hmmm… that could be for other reasons too!) when I hang around.

I have become very comfortable with the nature of what we are doing, but I often forget that others have never heard of ’emerging missional church’ and it just sounds like a weird bunch of people doing strange things rather than getting on with a Sunday Service.

Gotta keep remembering!

• death race online

download head of state online

Got another article online here.

Its called ‘On My Dark Days’…

Its very daaarrrrkk!

While I’m thinking out loud here’s another one…

Church – how important is it that we have everyone in one place at one time?

Why do I ask?

Well, looking around my neighbourhood it seems like to make that happen is going to be tricky. The core issues are:

shift work – some people cannot meet at the same times as others to start with
small kids – there is a limit to when / where you can meet with kids
extremely long and erratic working hours – some people see their one ‘day off’ as untouchable – is that bad?

Could church be as simple as 3 blokes meeting together in a lounge room/pub/café? Could it be as simple as two families having a meal together?

Is that church?

Perhaps the question is what happens when they get together because two families who are not Christians can hang together and that obviously would not be church and three blokes can have a beer any day.

But if we meet the criteria for a ‘Christian gathering’ then could we call it church, if there is no minister present, no offering taken etc?

I think the answer theologically is ‘yes’. It is church if we come together in Jesus name to worship, share life, learn from the scriptures, pray etc – not that we need to do all of them every time… true?…

So why might we be apprehensive about calling that our church?

Does it seem a bit ‘illegitimate’?

Do we need a bigger gathering? Do we need to do it as a family? Are we just so conditioned to bigger is better that it feels wrong?

Might it be the way to go?…

Sounds like it won’t be long before Forge gets up and flying in N.Z.

There are some great people over there willing to make it happen so hopefully the kiwis will enjoy the same quality of missionary training we have had here in Oz.

At the Melb forge intensives there are always a a bundle of kiwis, so it seems the market is there.

Baaa…divx jesse stone death in paradise

I think I have to agree that although ’emerging church’ is getting tired as a way of defining new expressions of church – and although ‘missional’ means so many different things to different people, its the language we are stuck with…

So here’s some news on our first Aussie ’emerging missional church’ gathering. It’ll be happening next year June 24-26 in Melbourne with Hirsch and Frost as locals and some overseas visitors in the form of Gerard Kelly (UK) and Tom & Christine Sine (US). We are hoping to pull as many people as posible from all around Oz and maybe even a few from overseas (Tasmanians welcome) so stay tuned for all you need to know.

Is it just me or is this already becoming a tired expression?

Even though we may recalibrate it as ’emerging missional church’ I am feeling it is a phrase that is going going the way of ‘missional’ and ‘postmodern’. Everybodies using it everybody means something different.

I’m sure its being said” ‘If I hear that word/phrase one more time!”‘

Then again what else do we use to define / describe the movement?

The crazy irony, is that every day I am bumping into more and more people all across the denominations who are genuinely exploring the area and seeking new ways of doing mission and being church.

I have been thinking about coordinating a ‘Discovery Tour’ around the middle of next year, the idea being that we grab a few potential church planter/missionary types from over here and do a ‘tour’ of a range of new ‘churches’ on the eastern seaboard to observe what is happening and to learn from their leaders.

I am thinking tying it in with the National Emerging Church Conference that we are running in June (25th – 26th) would be a good plan.

Maybe 10 guys – 3 days in Melbourne – 2 days at the conference – 2 days in Sydney and then 2 in Brisbane.

It could be an inspiring and valuable learning time. There are a heap of really imaginative and effective approaches to mission and church being implemented in those places.