Remember the 60’s and 70’s when the ‘red peril’ was in full swing and the western world was worried about communist take overs?
Truthfully I don’t know how real any of it was – I guess it depends on whose propaganda you read. I have a sense it was more fear mongering and caricaturing than actual reality.
But lately I have been wondering if Islam is the new Communism. It certainly feels like it. As I watched a doco recently on the communist fear of the 60’s/70’s the language and sentiment reminded me a lot of the way we talk about Muslims today.
As I understand it Muslims are ‘evangelistic’ in that they want to spread Islam all across the world – not unlike Christians I guess… But like Christians I am fairly sure Muslims are a diverse bunch. To caricature Muslims as all of Al Quaeda ilk is akin to suggesting all Christians are aligned with the Ku Klux Klan. A little unfair for the vast majority…
I write this tentatively because I don’t speak with a lot of experience or knowledge, but I have grown familiar with the smell of fear – often irrational fear and that is what I sense in the air around Oz at the moment.
So the Commies are no longer a threat, but now the Muslims are coming to get us…
Really?…
I realise this is a hot topic and a provocative one and I am happy to hear some useful input from people (genuinely) in the know. If you simply want to rant your uninformed prejudice then save it for someone who cares.I am neither a fan of Communism or Islam, but I am interested to think thru whether we are reacting from facts or fear.
Neo Conservatives. They deliberately exaggerated the soviet weapons arsenal and capability, whispering in Regans ears. There names where, Dick Cheyney, Paul Wolforwitz, Richard Pearl, Donald Rumsfeld.
Funny thing is they did the same trick with “weapons mass destruction” this time George Bush went along with them…
Just because you’re paranoid doesn’t mean they’re not watching you.
The reality is, which ever way you look at it, Communism was largely evil, a blight on the world, and still is in some places. The right-wing may have exaggerated it, but the facts were there to exaggerate.
I think it’s similar with Islam. No, not all Muslims are out to get us. Maybe not even the majority. But Islam by nature isn’t exactly a progressive, open and freedom-loving religion. If you’ve spent any time in a Muslim country you’ll know this. I’ve been to several, from relatively open ones where Christians were free to do what they want as long as they don’t try to convert Muslims, through to places we had to be very careful about speaking the gospel. I have friends who spent years in Saudi. I get weekly updates of persecution of Christians in Muslim majority countries.
Stuart Robinson in Mosques to Miracles says there may be moderate Muslims, but there is no such thing as moderate Islam.
I believe the West will fall, possibly to Islam. But that’s as much because the church is asleep and the West is rotting from the inside out. We’re easy pickings.
Before the commies—much the same rhetoric was used for the Jews–that they were evil, out to get/dominate the world …etc…etc. For some reason “Western civilization” seems to need a bogeyman/monster threat to validate itself….?
There is wisdom in Islam/Quran if one cares to see it. for example–it speaks of social justice—not just in theory, but also through the use of just laws and practical advise.
“The right-wing may have exaggerated it, but the facts were there to exaggerate”
Basically lying, a very dangerous position. In the case of ‘weapons of mass destruction’ the cause of hundreds of thousands of lost lives.
From what I can understand Islam is 70-80% about culture. Not about Spirituality. It would be very hard to evangelise to West in general to convert. Look at the difficulties when Christians ‘Incarnate’ into culture.
Australia post war, the reasons Catholicism increase was due to immigration of Catholic Europeans. I think this maybe the case in Australia this next couple of decades as well with Islamic immigration. So I don’t think it will be mass Islamic conversion we should be afraid of.
The western Culture is one of the strongest “idols” the Church has ever had to battle. (Narcissism is rampant) I think Islam will have the issues.
Communism in the form of the USSR was a real and dangerous threat. I have read tons and tons about WW2 and can tell you what the USSR did to countries like Poland after WW2, and the forced takeover of country after country was real and horrible for the occupied. Then there are the purges of Stalin where MILLIONS of Russians and others were executed because they were ‘enemies of the state.’ Numbers range from 12 million to 40 million, all in the name of Communism.
The difference in the ‘threat’ of Communism vs radical Islam is that Communism was a form of State control limited to some degree by geographical boundaries. Radical Islam is a religion and people ‘take it with them.’
And Islam does not make any distinction between ‘separation of church and state.’ In Islam, it IS the state. They are one and the same. So if a country’s population becomes majority Muslims, you could have a situation where Muslims could demand and get an Islamic government.
One last thing for those of you posting about the “right wing” lying about WMDs and getting us into a war in Iraq: It wasn’t just the “right wing.” Do a little google on “Democrat quotes on Saddam’s WMDs” and enlighten yourself on how ALL of the major LEFT wing pols were saying Iraq had WMDs, YEARS before GW Bush became president.
So if Bush and Cheney were lying about WMDs, so were Clinton, Hillary, Gore, Kerry, Peloozi, Kennedy and the rest.
Sorry, I had to get that off my chest.
I agree that at the time Stalinism was a threat. His power base was based inside USSR was one of fear. I don’t think you could put Gorbochov in the same Catagory though. He was rightly given a Nobel peace prize. I don’t think you can just clump all the regime all together.
I think “Communism” was just a front for the wrong people to subvert there power. Just as “the Crusades” where an excuse to dominate and plunder.
for the invasion where not in government. Certainly not privy to the same intelligence. I’m sure their advisors would not have been Pearl Cheney Rumsfeld etc
I agree Radial Islam is a threat but I’m not sure you can equate it with Communism.
I agree that Radical Islam is a threat, but not in Australia anyway. I also don’t think you can equate it with Communism.
Thanks for the conversation Billy, I think we probably have to agree to disagree an this. All the best and no ill will. Scott
I should add, regardless of the truth or otherwise of the fear-mongering, our response to Muslims, of course, must be love. That’s a battle for some of us more than others.
Well said Alex.
If as Christians we believe Jesus and what He said, there can only be one response to a religion which denies His divinity…and only one place such a religion can come from.
But…I am very glad that many of that faith are coming to our country, where we can share the love and grace of Christianity with them, without fear of severe persecution, as we might attract in many Islamic countries.
I don’t fear them…thats for sure, I want to love them into the Kingdom.
Perhaps it is only the brave who can look into the face of “the enemy” and see that they too are made in the image of God.
Race and Religion are the tools of the Devil to divide and spoil. Why are we so quick to condemn others who don’t dress, think act like us – just because Muslims are “different” doesn’t make them inherently bad. Some Muslims ARE bad, but an honest look into Christian history makes me hang my head in shame.
We are to be peace-MAKERS…
Who is ready to stand up to the call?
Hi Colin,
I certainly dont see them as the enemy…and like me, they are loved by God, and made in His image…
The Devil does use race and religion to divide…absolutely..
But don’t forget Jesus’ words, “I am the way the truth and the life, no one comes to the Father except through me” and these words from the Prince of Peace as well, “Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword.”
The gospel does offend and confront.
We should do whatever we can to live at peace with all people, but always be prepared to give an answer for the hope that is within us.
And this gospel will offend Islamic faith, because it says that they need to turn from their faith and turn instead to Jesus.
Islam pre-dates Communism, but it’s also fair to say that a lot of Islamists are mediocre moderates, much like many Christians. Where the difference between Christianity and Islam shows up is in the practice of its extremists. Extreme Islamists are agents of the Jihad. Extreme Christians adhere to agape.
Living in a post communist country (Bulgaria) I find this post very interesting as I am confronted with the vestiges of communism daily. I have also visited some Islamic states and also some states that are predominantly Islamic though not run by an Islamic state.
One of the ongoing discussions here in Bulgaria is that there was much good in the communism era and the ideas that it stood for. Little to no unemployment, good health care, etc, etc. Is there good in Islam? I’m told there is. Perhaps we might find good by looking after the socially disadvantaged.
To me, however, the core of this issue is the old cliche, ‘Guns don’t kill people, people kill people’. Communism in theory, many would agree, is a lovely thing. There is no need. People are looked after and not exploited. Individuals look after one another. history shows however that there was much abuse of this in the cold war era and millions died who resisted and/or proved to inhibit this ideology from taking shape.
Communism was dangerous not because of the values at the heart of it but because of the people trying to institute it, and thus the only way that they could implement it – by removing choice and imposing it. This is the problem with the crusades, and now Islam. Take away people’s right to choose it and instead impose it by force and we have a problem.
If any idea is deemed as truth, let it stand the test of choice!
Thanks for your comment Dan, insightful.