Last week I listened in on the speech given by Alan Chambers, leader of Exodus International as they closed their doors and publicly apologised to those around them for some of their practices over the last 35 years, particularly their method of reparative therapy – ie trying to make a gay person straight. It seems the apology generated a fair amount of cynicism – which seems sad to me as I’d like to always give someone the benefit of the doubt.
That said, it is a statement with significant implications. It seems that ‘people in the know’ are saying that it doesn’t work to try and straighten someone out – in fact more than that, the apology indicates that it is destructive to try and do so. I am inclined to listen to those who have spent 35 years in the trenches.
If I read between the lines correctly, it seems that Chambers continues to hold what would be considered biblically conservative views on the subject of homosexuality. So while he sees wrong done to people in their attempts to ‘re-orient’ them he still would not affirm gay sexual practice.
I find the whole subject quite a conundrum and much easier to discuss in the absence of real people who are in the midst of varying degrees of struggle. Theories are much easier to work with than human beings… But theories are useless if they can’t hold up in real life.
I have long had a conservative view on this issue – formed both by scripture and my evangelical culture. I find it very hard to read scripture as affirming of gay relationships. I don’t find it at all difficult to imagine gay people in relationship with Jesus though.
I do often wonder if this is another issue we have been wrong on not unlike our views on women. At this stage I can’t say my views have shifted although they have been shaken. That said I am listening more carefully and trying to revisit my reasons for where I sit because I think this will be one of the pivotal issues of our time in regards to the church and I could be wrong.
One of my biggest struggles is with our own internal inconsistencies – allowing divorced people in leadership (the Bible is much clearer on divorce than homosexuality) or even porn addicts – but not gay people… We seem to be much more lenient on the sexual sins we struggle with and tougher on the ones that we can attribute to a less powerful minority.
Another struggle is that I think we (as evangelicals) have been largely responsible for the emergence of gay churches or the like because we have been so vehement in our response to gay people. We have denied any possibility of real faith while a person is gay. So now expecting them to find a place in any of churches would be like asking them to enter what is perceived as a lions den. I know there are some exceptions to this.
I was discussing the issue with a friend this week and the difficulty we have in speaking of it. Even to raise the issue is to hold up a ‘hit me’ sign to the group you don’t side with. It seems the options in front of us so often appear to be either ‘condemning’ (albeit ‘nicely’ at times) or ‘affirming’ and neither sit well with me.
Is there a different path that we can take that avoids either affirming or condemning and simply points people to Christ and allows him to do whatever work he wants to in their lives? Because he is the one who is best placed to make any judgements and offer direction.
I’m guessing there may come a time when we can speak more freely on the topic and when the heat will have gone out of it. Now isn’t that time. We are always treading carefully – partly because it is hot and partly because we are actively trying to re-think and re-assess – a process that is not easy when your views are so entrenched and your culture so polarised.
What I liked in Alan chambers speech was his comment that God would ‘rather have messy kids than no kids’. If his gay kids are ‘messy’ albeit in a different way to ‘straight kids’ then he would rather have them close to him than far away. It was a statement that rang true and carried the vibe of Jesus who never seemed at all bothered by the ‘messy kids’. And they liked him too – not something we can easily say of the church and the gay community.
So as I consider my own response at this point in time – and perhaps permanently – it will be to point people to Jesus and help them really encounter him. Because he seems better at helping people find life than I am and he is well used to ‘messy kids’. (And yes – I understand that this is simple discipleship for everyone – but I don’t think it has ever been seen as this simple.)
I have never written a post on this subject before as I haven’t wanted to deal with the barrage of hate mail that inevitably goes with the territory. That said – my views are now out there and you can do what you like with them…
Great post Hammo….. Think the wider church community needs to have these discussions and not be so fearful. Church community is for all…. No exclusions
Not easy to put this kind of thing into words but I think you did a great job. THe way I understand it Jesus died for our sins He never specified any He did not die for. I find so many Gay friends believe that God does not want them if they are gay, I think God loves us regardless of our sin so we can go to Him, gay or not.
Excellent work Hamo- as usual I love where your head is at with this stuff, and you are wrestling authentically with something we all need to – if we profess to love both Jesus and our brothers and sisters. Haters can hate- let them. Good on ya for opening some good dialogue here.
Thanks guys 🙂
Hamo and others,
Long time reader and occasional commenter on this blog, but going anonymous this time, mostly because not too many “out there” are familiar with my story.
So I’m a good Christian boy. Grew up in church. Know all the right things. Became a youth leader. Did some bible college. Got married to a beautiful woman further down the track.
Oh, and somewhere in there discovered that I was attracted to other guys.
Much as there’s a lot wrong with the idea of “pray the gay away” idea, I’m disappointed to see a group like Exodus go away. Mostly because similar (although non affiliated) ministries helped me.
Not to say that I’m totally “healed”. I still struggle with my sexuality to some extent, in a way that we all do in one way or another. But I found some stuff that was at the root of a lot of the desires that I have, and found healthy ways to deal with things. I also found a Jesus that accepted me in the midst of the shame that I felt in a lot of the (sometimes unspoken) attitude of the church towards “people like me”.
(In my journey, I also found some attraction to women, and really do find my wife attractive. And she is helpful on this journey. But I don’t want to make that the point of this story, because several guys I know with similar issues to me have not found that, and it’s not the point at the end of the day)
The unfortunate thing with Exodus going away is that it gives the idea that the only responses from the church are to tell same-sex attracted people to repent, and thus that they are somehow worth less until they change; or to accept everything carte blanch.
I think there’s a bit more to it when it comes to the church dealing with “gay” people, and that has been missed somewhere. Mostly because we use the term to mean different things, and confuse the issues. Are we talking about people who are attracted to the same sex, people who are actively participating in sexual activity with those of the same sex, or people who have adopted that as an identity?
Like you Hamo I can’t reconcile scripture with making homosexual activity okay. But I also can’t see simply being attracted to the same sex as sinful in and of itself, because no one I know woke up one day and actively chose to become like that. We’re all broken in some way, and for some people, for whatever reason, are broken in this way.
Does that make us messy kids? Probably.
But what we need is Jesus. Acceptance from him. Acceptance from those who call themselves his (i.e. the church). And discipleship like everyone else.
I hope this latest move doesn’t negate the latter in a well meaning move to make the former happen. At the same time, we know what happens when we try and dictate morality to the world instead of showing them Jesus.
So here’s some jumbled thoughts, but I felt like I wanted to share having seen this come through my facebook today.
Love and fishes,
Mr Anonymous.
G’day Anonymous – I don’t normally allow any anon comments but no probs this time – I can understand.
I guess people will always need somewhere to go to discuss their lives and challenges, but what i liked in the Exodus speech was that they are trying to throw that back to the local church.
Yeah – its a big BIG ask but probably how things are meant to be. If the local church could have done its thing with gay folk then Exodus wouldn’t have been necessary. If the local church had been on the ball with mission then Forge wouldn’t have been necessary. But my take is that sometimes these groups are needed for a time – a period of emphasis / course correction and then they can leave the church to it.
There are many perplexing questions that will arise I am sure, but perhaps if the spirit is right then they can be approached and dealt with.
Good post, Hamo. Leaving things to Jesus–letting people encounter Him and relying on Him to work in their lives the way He sees fit? Now *that* takes faith.
Yeah Bob – in one sense easier – and in another harder – because that means less control for me/us…
Still means we have to navigate some tricky waters, but I imagine he can help us cross those bridges when we come to them too